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American Land Seller Podcast
Welcome to The American Land Seller, the podcast dedicated to landowners, buyers, and investors seeking expert insights into the evolving land market. Hosted by Koby Rickertsen, an Accredited Land Consultant and Multi-State Land Broker with High Point Land Company, this show dives deep into market trends, investment strategies, and real-world experiences in farm, ranch, and recreational land sales.
Each episode features industry professionals, seasoned investors, and landowners sharing their expertise on topics such as:
✅ Land market trends and valuation strategies
✅ 1031 exchanges and tax implications
✅ Seller financing and creative deal structures
✅ Conservation easements and government programs
✅ Navigating legal and zoning challenges
✅ Building generational wealth through land ownership
Whether you're a first-time land buyer, a seasoned investor, or a landowner looking to sell, The American Land Seller provides the knowledge and tools you need to succeed in today’s competitive land market.
American Land Seller Podcast
Episode 29 Matt Davis - Protecting Property Rights & Shaping the Future of Land Sales
In this episode, Matt Davis, ALC, an Accredited Land Consultant with Cushman & Wakefield in Southern California and the newly elected Vice President of the Realtors Land Institute (RLI), joins us for an insightful discussion on the future of land sales, leadership in the industry, and the evolving landscape of land use.
We cover:
✅ Matt’s journey in land sales and his vision for RLI.
✅ What his new leadership role means for land professionals nationwide.
✅ The growing influence of alternative energy on land values and use.
✅ Challenges and opportunities in today’s evolving land market.
✅ How RLI is advocating for property rights and shaping national policy.
As renewable energy projects continue expanding, how should landowners and investors prepare for the shift? We break it all down in this must-listen episode!
Contact Matt @ https://www.cushmanwakefield.com/en/u...
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#LandSales #RealtorsLandInstitute #LandBroker #RealEstate #AlternativeEnergy #RenewableEnergy #FarmAndRanch #CommercialRealEstate #AmericanLandSellerPodcast
Today on the American Land Seller, our guest is Matt Davis, a powerhouse in land advisory and investment strategy. Matt has been with Cushman Wakefield since 2008, where he specializes in the disposition and acquisition of land and investment assets across North America. He's the platform leader of Cushman Wakefield's Land Advisory Group, heading a national team that delivers creative solutions for everything from master-planned communities and agriculture land to industrial development and renewable energy projects. Over his career, matt has transacted over 155,000 acres for a diverse range of uses, making a significant impact in the industry.
Speaker 1:As an accredited land consultant, alc, matt's expertise and leadership in land brokerage are undeniable. His dedication to the industry is further reflected in his active involvement with the Realtors Land Institute. Since joining RLI in 2018, he has served on key committees, chaired the Government Affairs Committee and even led as 2024 President of the Western States Chapter, representing six states. His accolades include being named the RLI Rising Star in 2019, commercial Land Broker of the Year in 2020, and member of the Apex Top Producers Club from 2018 through 2023. With a Bachelor's of Science in Real Estate from San Diego State University, matt brings a deep understanding of land transactions, market trends and investment strategies. His passion for the land coupled with his leadership in shaping the future of land brokerage makes him an invaluable guest today. So get ready to dive into insightful discussion with Matt Davis right here on the American Land Seller Podcast.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the American Land Seller Podcast with your host, kobe Rickardson. Kobe is an accredited land consultant and multi-state land broker with High Point Land Company. Join us each week as we explore all things land. We bring you fresh insights and expert guests on sales, marketing, regulations, economics and so much more. Visit wwwamericanlandsellercom and find us on one of your favorite podcast platforms.
Speaker 3:Okay, Kobe and our special guests, let's get started. Okay, Kobe and our special guests, let's get started.
Speaker 1:Hey, welcome back to the Land Seller Podcast. This is an exciting day. We're joined by Matt Davis. He is an accredited land consultant with Cushman and Wakefield out of Southern California. Matt, how are you today Doing well, man, how are you Doing great? I can't complain at all. I am a little jealous. You're kind of the San Diego, I think. Man, how are you Doing great? I can't complain at all. I am a little jealous. You're kind of the San Diego, I think right is where you're at, matt.
Speaker 4:So, like you have just like the absolute perfect weather all year round. Weather's great. No land to sell. So we got to go out of town to sell any dirt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did know that too, but no, it's a pretty. My son was stationed down there when he was in the Marines and so we got to go visit several times and it was just absolutely beautiful there. So good for you. You don't have the snow and stuff to deal with like we do here in Nebraska, but anyway. So, matt, let's talk just a little bit about, like. Just recently, you uh, you were selected to be the vice president for realtors land institute. Anybody that listens to this podcast knows we're huge fans of all the guys at the realtors land institute. Let's talk just a little bit in the beginning here about uh, what's that look like? Uh, what's your path now? Congratulations. Of course, you know that we're excited for your leadership, but uh, where do you go from here? When do you start and what's that look like?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I appreciate that Super exciting and glad to be kind of stepping into the leadership chairs for the organization. Term officially starts, you know, 2025. So it's a four-year commitment vice president, incoming president and then president and immediate past president. So I've signed up for four years of leadership at RLI and got a great you know slate of guys I'll be working with stepping into the VP position. So excited for that collaboration and I think you know the organization's been on such a great track the last number of years. Staff's phenomenal. And I think primary goal as I kind of move into that leadership position with RLI is keep it on the path that it's on and continue to leverage a relationship with National Association of Realtors and really be the voice of land out there, making sure that in Washington we're doing as much as we can to protect property owners' rights and industry in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny you should say that because, like as a land real estate professional, okay, so the Realtors Association really is not the association as a whole. Right, it's not really the biggest advantage for us land folks you know commercial people and land people but with all that's happened recently I think that you know you mentioned this like one of the things that is really important about the Re realtors is our voice in Washington. Right, and I know that you're you have been the government affairs chair for RLI for the last few years. Talk just a little bit about what specifically is RLI's government affairs committee kind of focused on as far as what are we watching? What are watching? I was on the committee with you I'm not this year, but I was for two or three years before that and so it's just fascinating what we're watching and how important that voice is when it comes to not just landowners but property owners in general.
Speaker 4:Yeah, as you kind of mentioned, nar, national Association of Realtors isn't necessarily land-focused as an organization, but it's a massive organization that does carry a lot of weight and horsepower in Washington, just given the size and number of people that are members. And set the whole commission thing aside, as far as what's happened there, it's still an important and powerful organization and it's got a loud voice and they've recognized that. As a commercial member under NAR, rli represents the experts and has the expertise to speak to land issues in Washington and so we've been able to really leverage that relationship and the horsepower that NAR brings and the voice that it has in Washington to be impactful in Washington and so some of the things we've been working on. You know, it seems like every couple of years the 1031 exchange is under threat. That impacts everybody in real estate. But we've been good advocates for that. We worked with the environmental organizations who use it to acquire land for conservation. It's a big part of what they do. So anytime you get, you know, real estate professionals, environmentalists on the same page, it's usually a pretty scary situation and so it does carry a lot of weight to kind of form those collaborations and relationships.
Speaker 4:Wotus Waters of the US has been a big one.
Speaker 4:You know We've had three WOTUS rules, one under each of the last presidents, so it's been kind of a ping pong back and forth of trying to figure out what's going on and making sure it's not overreaching.
Speaker 4:So there's been a lot of litigation there that RLI has been part of. They're actually a plaintiff in one of the cases and so again joint coalition just advocating for property owners' rights as it relates to waters of the US, and really that's anything that could be even a seasonal stream could get folded under WOTUS and just means that anything that could impact that stream now is a federal issue, the open fields doctrine. A lot of people don't know that. You know illegal or unlawful search and seizure doesn't necessarily apply to your, your property beyond your home. So if you have acreage every state's a little different, and so RLI has been writing amicus briefs and involved in a number of cases across the country. Most recently we were successful in Tennessee in protecting and helping kind of expand those rights beyond the structure itself to the property boundaries, property boundaries so a lot of impactful stuff for property owners, also advocating on behalf of the professionals themselves and in the business with things like 1031s.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. I mean and I think that you know there's a lot of people that don't really understand that that when you're looking at all, the all of the tax taxing entities in the all of the tax taxing entities in the, you know, at the state, local, federal government has it, it's just that big number from what the savings is from the 1031 exchanges. It's just real tempting for lawmakers to go man, that seems like a real simple, you know, like that should be an easy, um, easy one to fix. We'll just tie that up and get rid of that. In reality I don't know how much. I just don't think there's going to be a whole lot of land changing hands if you didn't have that 1031 exchange. I mean, is that kind of your feeling too?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it could definitely freeze the marketplace from a transaction standpoint. You'd likely end up with a flurry of activity in advance of a change like that, as people try to get ahead of it, but then you'd have a total trough of activity. One of the best kind of arguments for retaining it that I've heard, and part of the problem, is you're dealing with staffers a lot of times and folks that don't own property. They've never participated in it that 31 like kind exchange, so they just don't have familiarity with it or a real understanding. But most of them have 401ks and so explaining to them the deferred tax benefit of a 401k is very similar to the deferred tax benefit of a 1031 exchange for property, and so it accomplishes the same purchase or purpose, right, it allows you to grow your wealth over time and as you cash out at a later point in time, you pay taxes, right, and so, um, it's uh, when you kind of explain it in terms that that are familiar and they understand, sometimes we get a better, better result. But so far, so good.
Speaker 1:Yep, now, like I said, it just seems like you're right. Every couple of years that seems to be the solution that the lawmakers want to use. It's like, oh, we'll fix taxes, we'll just get rid of this big monster, and then we'll gain a whole bunch of money. Close the loophole. Yeah, close the loophole, which really isn't a loophole, I don't think. And then again I don't think we mentioned it. But the flood insurance, that is another one that seems like it's on the chopping block quite every time it comes up solution. You know, we kind of still have to keep that program limping along, just to kind of to protect landowners and property owners in those floodplain areas, and so yeah, that's a great one.
Speaker 4:The insurance topic is one that RLI has weighed in on quite a bit lately Flood insurance specifically. We're starting to talk about fire insurance out west. All of those are kind of timely topics. As we deal with, it seems like more extreme weather patterns. That's smart.
Speaker 1:But no well, matt, we're about 10 minutes here. Let's just take a real quick break, if you don't mind, and we'll just come back. I do want to pick your brain a little bit on the energy use on land and stuff like that, if you don't mind, because I know you're kind of an expert in that area and so I'm really fascinated with how that works. So if you have a second, can you come back after a break here? Absolutely, All right, we'll be right back.
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Speaker 1:Okay, we're back here with Matt Davis, accredited land consultant. Matt, you know we talked a little bit before we started this today um, about um. You kind of have become a guru in the world of like um, helping people find you know and work through um, like renewable energy on land and stuff like that. Talk just a little bit about how. First of all, how did you kind of get into that? Is that something that your company kind of threw a file on your desk and said figure this out, matt. Or or how did you get into maybe kind of working a file on your desk and said figure this out, matt. Or how did you get into maybe kind of working with renewable energy and land purchases?
Speaker 4:at least it's funny. I had an interest in land coming out of college. I wanted to be a real estate developer and then I kind of fell into the brokerage world and just more traditional commercial brokerage. And it was in 2009 where I was coming out of the great financial crisis trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life, and I had a colleague who had a relationship with a guy that had gone to work for a solar company and they wanted to do some site selection for solar projects and they wanted a young guy to pound the pavement and help them find dirt. And the region they were looking in is kind of close to where I grew up and so they tapped me and so really it was my first land assignment.
Speaker 4:It's kind of what got me into the land business. The guy I ended up partnering with on that assignment was kind of an old, grizzled land broker who had done a lot of residential development land and things like that across Southern California, and so we went out and became site selection experts for renewable energy projects. Some of those never got built. It was kind of early days and ultimately kind of a tumultuous time in renewable energy from a project development standpoint. But it kind of laid the foundation for my land career going forward. So we've been doing renewables a long time as long as I've been doing land, yeah.
Speaker 1:What is the right now? Like, what's the hot thing with renewables? I know like I don't get to play in it too terribly much just because Nebraska is a Nebraska's the state in the state of Nebraska, I would say. So what are the investors kind of thinking as the cats meow right now when it comes to renewable?
Speaker 4:energy. It depends heavily on what the subsidies are. It's still a fledgling industry that's heavily subsidized and so it's really market-by-market specific. But I'd say across the board battery energy storage systems called BESS, b-e-s-s are probably the most interesting and still kind of the Wild West out there as far as activity and kind of a gold rush mentality. So we're seeing a lot of those across the country, still seeing, you know, wind and solar projects as well, of different sizes across the country but but best projects are probably the most um active at the moment what if somebody owns some land out there like and and wants to consider that like what is the pre?
Speaker 1:what's the qualifications for a piece of property to maybe be considered for that particular project?
Speaker 4:So almost the number one criteria is proximity to a substation. Because the battery projects are smaller footprint they may be anywhere from like an acre to you know, 50 acres on the maybe the biggest side. They're much more sensitive to what it's going to take to get the power to the substation. So actually finding the rights of way and connecting the project to the grid Typically it's at a substation where you know a solar project you might, depending on the size of it, you might go you know miles to connect to the grid. But with battery projects they're much more sensitive to the complexity of trying to tie it into the grid. So land next to a substation is ideal and so for anyone that's got land next to a substation, they should look at whether there's capacity and whether it has potential for a battery project.
Speaker 1:Sure. So you guys I mean California was kind of one of the pioneers, especially with like wind when it first came out, and so is that something that they continue to kind of be looking at finding properties. I mean, it's kind of to me it seems like you've got. You've got as much desert as you do, beautiful land, you know. So do you just put solar panels out in the desert or windmills out in the desert, and is that, you know, like, do you see a trend?
Speaker 4:out there. Yeah, the, the wind projects, like you mentioned, you know. I mean, some of them have been there, I think, probably more than 50 years, and so what we see is repowering of old projects. They'll come in with new technology, you know, leverage the fact that the land's already disturbed, the connection of the grid's already there and and bring in new technology that's more efficient and and can ultimately increase the amount of power being generated. We've seen that with some of the early solar projects as well. Uh, come in and basically scrape the project and um and come in with new technology, but leverage that connection to the grid, which is actually a really expensive and time-consuming part of the development process is getting approval to connect to the grid. So if you've got a project, that already has.
Speaker 4:that that's pretty valuable. So we're seeing that. And then, yes, desert we did like a 10,000-acre solar project in the Mojave Desert, so pretty massive scale. And so you're seeing some large projects out there as well as small projects. And most recently, we've had a lot of changes in the water groundwater regulatory environment in California. A lot of productive agricultural land that's now kind of what I would say has water security issues. It doesn't have enough water going forward to irrigate all the acreage. We're looking at those for potential solar development.
Speaker 1:Does that, and that's kind of an interesting thing you brought up too, though, with the water security issues on this stuff. Is that affecting your land prices out there, or is it just kind of turning them into, kind of you just said that are we pivoting from okay, from okay well, we're not going to have avocados anymore. We're going to turn that into, like, maybe, some sort of energy production property or yeah, for for land that has.
Speaker 4:You know, since the sustainable groundwater management act passed in 2014 and really started getting implemented in 2020, we're now really seeing, you know, over the last few years, the change in values and so land that has quality water rights and has water security, that land's maintained value, or you know, modestly increased over time, just with kind of general trends in the marketplace, whereas land that doesn't have sufficient water, the market value has just fallen off. I mean, it's pretty drastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's growing up in farm country, that you know like. I just remember back when we went from anything goes, you know, probably back in the 80s to, you know, very regulated, no more new wells for irrigation. You know you could take your surface water rights and lease them or sell them to Colorado, you know like. So it's just that water is very interesting.
Speaker 1:I'll never forget the day that I was in Vancouver, british Columbia, I used to own a trucking company and I was up there unloading and I was sitting in a place kind of looking at their little bay area or whatever it was, and they had a bunch of oil tankers sitting there and uh, so I asked the guy it's like, what is with you got? Is this a huge oil production state? And he's like, oh no, that's water. We're selling water to los angeles. So they just load, they take all the glacier water, whatever the water running off of the mountains, and then they load it into tankers and send it to los angeles. He goes there. So I thought, well, that's it. Now you're exporting water to the united states.
Speaker 4:It's. It's an important commodity. You know it's even on some of the renewable projects if they have water rights. We're able to monetize those, oftentimes and sell them to somebody that you know, because the renewable projects don't require a ton of water for operations and maintenance once they're built. You know, construction water is one thing, but ongoing they're pretty low water usage. So we've actually taken water from it, was tied to land, severed it from the land and sold it to districts or other, you know, agricultural users or people that need that water to continue their operations.
Speaker 1:I just announced recently we got another half a point from interest rates. Are we seeing out there where you're at or where you're licensed? I know you're multiple states, like most of us are. Are you kind of seeing the interest rates being an issue? Or we still have quite a bit of cash players, or have you, have you guys kind of seen a slowdown when it comes to the land investment and development investment?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's, it's, you know it's changed um, return expectations right, Just based on the risk free rate of return uh, coming up, you know kind of tracking with the interest rate environment. Um, that tends to affect people's expectations of what they're going to get on farmland returns and even renewable energy returns. I mean their capital stack has changed and their cost of capital is different than it was and despite subsidies and things like that, it can still be difficult to make a project pencil. So I mean the easy answer is yes. You know interest rates have impacted the market. I think you know everyone's kind of been waiting with bated breath to get through the election here and optimistic the rates were coming down through the end of the year and obviously that's happening. So we'll see. You know, as the Fed drops their rate, you know I doubt we'll see a one-to-one decrease in the the mortgage market, but if it helps decrease that uh, that cost of capital a little bit, it'll be helpful.
Speaker 1:I I, I am like the, I know like economics for dummies, like realistically basic economics, but I really have a hard time trying to figure out how we can get the economy under control if you continue to have low interest rates. You know, like that, I think there has to be a point where we kind of have to spend six months or something like that just trying to get everything under control. But I might be wrong, you know, like it's just, I just don't know it's, I guess like economics doesn't really work the way it's supposed to anyway anymore. So I suppose the book, the books that I just burn, them and start over again.
Speaker 4:I tell people you know, I just sell dirt, it's over my pig.
Speaker 1:I think you probably know a little bit more than that. But I mean well, if you don't mind, let's take a quick break and we will be right back. Land isn't just dirt.
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Speaker 1:All right, we're back here with Matt Davis from Cushman and Wakefield, the land advisory group there. What is a land advisory group? Is that just a special division of your company?
Speaker 4:from traditional commercial land like residential, master-planned community development, industrial development all the way to agriculture, ranches and renewable energy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now, that has been one of the interesting things that I've learned a lot from folks like you that are doing a lot of development and renewable energy and stuff like that. Just because we mostly row crop and grazing pastures and stuff like that, any developments we have where I'm at are, you know, pretty much house based. You know like, uh, residential houses and and so it's been kind of fascinating to get to know you and and the other developer guys out there in the world, that, um, that world that are doing kind of some really fun stuff and developing and growing communities. So let's go back to renewable energy.
Speaker 1:Like talk just a little bit, if you don't mind, about who is a client, like what does your client look like? And how are some of these deals structured that you're doing with the renault leonard? Here are we talking leases, purchases, a little bit of both. Um, you know, I, we again I don't have much um experience with it, so I'm just kind of fascinated with what you're up to yeah, so you know, clients usually take one of two forms in the space and not dissimilar to any other kind of relationship.
Speaker 4:But it's either developers, you know, independent power producers, groups that own, you know, power generation facilities across the country and are moving into the renewal space, or kind of what I would call a front end developer, people that have the understanding kind of engineering background of what it takes to entitle and approve one of these projects and they're kind of the funnel for some of these larger IPP, the independent power providers of the utilities, and so they'll get out there, they'll put the whole project together, you know, wrap it up in a nice bow, get it fully approved and then they'll sell the project to a group that's actually going to build it and operate it long term. The other side would be a landowner who has land that we think has potential for renewables, and so we're actually going to list that and take it to market just like we would any other listing.
Speaker 1:That's very cool. So, mostly like you're trying to find the people that have the desire to do the project, then you come to an even bigger challenge, which is where, to put it Like, what does site selection look like when you're looking for? You know, when you're looking at a project Like I can't imagine that every piece of land is equally valuable to an energy or a renewable energy project.
Speaker 4:Yeah, usually our client will tell us, you know, there's a point of interconnect, typically a substation or maybe a line segment between substations, depending on the size of the project that is, you know, based on preliminary review, attractive that there's potential for them to inject power into that piece of infrastructure. So they'll give us kind of the point on the map or again a line between two points and say, okay, we need X amount of acres at this location, and so we'll go out and look for that land. If it's an undeveloped area, that might be an easier task. If it's a developed area, where there, that might be an easier task. If it's a developed area where there's a lot of infrastructure already in the ground buildings et cetera then maybe we're looking for a needle in a haystack to find that one undeveloped or underdeveloped property who's got a willing owner as far as a sale or lease, and so there's kind of a multi-track process. One is getting site control right, so we're talking with the landowner about a sale or release. These are usually an option or an extended escrow type structure In most markets.
Speaker 4:It takes two plus years to get the interconnect application approved, which is kind of the second piece of it and that is, working through the utility or the regional entity that oversees the utility grid and actually getting approval from them to inject power into that space, and so that could take, as I said, a couple of years. It could take longer four years, five years in some cases and so with each kind of step in that process is they get preliminary feedback and then a more detailed feedback. They're kind of de-risking the project and sometimes six months in they find out that that substation actually doesn't have any capacity and so they've got to try to relocate to another piece of infrastructure in the region. So there's some pitfalls early in the process and that's why they need that multi-year option to kind of work through that process and make sure that they actually have a fully-baked project.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's pretty fascinating. Have you seen anything? Like you just said? You had a 10,000-acre project that you were recently a part of. Do they build substations or you know, like build in power infrastructure in for projects if they're big enough?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so that one had, I think, a project-level substation, but I forget the exact length of the transmission line that they built to get to the existing infrastructure. They call it a Gentile line. It's the generator tie-in, and so the Gentile line was on that one. I think it was either 13 or 17 miles to get to existing infrastructure, and you're talking about probably a million dollars a mile for above ground lines, probably two and a half million a mile for underground lines, just for the physical cost of construction, not factoring in the cost of acquiring the easements or the land to actually build it on. So it's why they like to put those projects close to existing infrastructure, because the connection can get real expensive, real quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it sounds like it. Let me think here so who else do you work with in order, like, do you work with other companies? Do you work with other real estate companies? Like tell me kind of how this process?
Speaker 4:works. Yeah, so we, you know, we work across the country on these projects and because we have some really strong client relationships with different developers these projects, and because we have some really strong client relationships with different developers, they kind of rely on us to almost run their real estate site selection in multiple states. Personally, I'm only licensed in California and so when we're working out of the region we'll go to someone in our company or at a different company as our boots on the ground and rely on them to kind of knock on the doors, kick over the rocks. Locally we can work with them to help explain the structure, why it needs to be the way it is, what the various stages of the project are, and, kind of shoulder to shoulder with somebody in the local market, we can usually find land and put a deal together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's another asset to the Realtors Land Institute again is finding those people. It's usually pretty easy to find good people if you just go reach out through that network and take a look. Thinking about the last couple of months or years, what's been the most entertaining project that you've worked on? Maybe.
Speaker 4:We just sold a, you know, pivoting far away from uh. We just sold a, you know, pivoting far away from renewables. We just sold a golf course in Princeton, new Jersey. That was uh about 220 acres just outside of Princeton and it was uh formerly the estate uh to the air of the Johnson and Johnson family and so pretty, pretty high profile. You know asset, the clubhouse was his former mansion that he built for his third wife and it was pretty spectacular.
Speaker 1:That's very cool. What do you think and what's been the most challenging project that you've worked on? That's a good question.
Speaker 4:We've had a number of renewables, projects that are, for all the reasons I said, kind of the front end timelines, things like that that are really challenging, where you're looking at an urban environment for underdeveloped land, maybe a few acres, but you're trying to get a couple years of timeframe on the front end and our clients are willing to pay pretty significant six-figure option payments annually to keep control of that land. But it's a difficult thing for people in the built environment that have the ability to sell their property for other economically viable uses. If you're out in the middle of the desert and there's nothing else going on, it's pretty easy to convince to to sit shoulder to shoulder with you for a few years while you work through a project. But when you're in the urban area it's it's a little more challenging. So we've had a number of projects throughout kind of urban California that it's. You know we we've got our clients made substantial commitments from an interconnection standpoint.
Speaker 1:They've got massive deposits made, but you just can't find land. You know it's, it's, it's tough, that's tough, you know. I think that's kind of been the interesting thing all the way across the country with land is is like it seems like we have, you know, midwestern farm ground. Even you've got producers that generationally have finally gotten a little bit of cash together. You know, even though that we see a dip in commodity prices, we've got a lot of cash that's playing in the land world still, and I think that that's kind of the same everywhere, isn't it? It's like people have projects, different things they want to do, they just don't have the product isn't available.
Speaker 4:It's truly supply constrained right I mean, and no-transcript estate world, especially the commercial real estate world, and we had two dozen bids, all from qualified bidders, on that deal and got that done kind of mid-2024. So if you've got a high-profile trophy asset, it's truly irreplaceable. It doesn't matter what's going on in the economy, the interest is out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's definitely true. Going back just real quick to the renewable energy stuff, one of the things I've kind of been watching, this in Nebraska where you've got some people that are interested in maybe putting a wind farm up or different things and so the counties are kind of going through and figuring out zoning that's pretty, pretty strict to try and make sure that if it does happen then homes aren't affected with strobing, you know, for the specifically with the wind farms, but I think that it can be anything out there. Are you guys seeing like some pretty strict requirements on, you know, disassembling and getting rid of the projects when they're obsolete?
Speaker 4:Yeah, on the back end, many municipalities will require a reclamation bond.
Speaker 4:I've seen some developers want to supply that bond later in the life cycle of the project, but I think if I'm on the landowner side, I'd want that bond as soon as they're putting a shovel in the ground, because in Texas there was a hailstorm that destroyed a bunch of panels. If there's a major failure that renders the project infeasible you know economically infeasible going forward I'd want to make sure that that equipment's coming out of the ground and that there's a bond there to ensure it. Because all of these projects are done with single purpose entities, so they're project level entities that don't have any other assets. You know the only assets they have are this project and so you know, specifically for leased land, if you're leasing land to an energy project, if the municipality isn't requiring a reclamation bond, then the landowner should and they'll only do one bond. So usually we write into the contract that a bond is required. If the municipality requires it, it can be held in their name. If they don't, it'll be held in the landowner's name.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, that's fascinating. So just before we go, just real quick, if you have one thing that you can do over the next three years with RLI to make an impact, what's your goal? What's your one thing that you really think you can make a difference on with the organization?
Speaker 4:I think, tell the story of what we're doing in Washington and making sure people are aware of it, because I think that's something that for even some of the members of RLI it's happening in the background. If they're not on the Government Affairs Committee, they're not really engaged, they aren't aware of the advocacy work that's happening in the background. And so I think, continuing to elevate that advocacy work and really be involved in coalitions that are out there, you know, litigating and protecting property rights, and then telling that story publicly, both to the membership and the greater landowning public, Sure.
Speaker 1:Well, well, matt, thank you so much for taking the time to do this today. As always, I learned a lot, so, so I hope you continue to do well out in California and and I know you're involved in projects throughout the throughout the country. But I do appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to visit with us, and I hope you have a great rest of your week.
Speaker 4:Thanks, kobe, appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 2:As we wrap up another episode of the American Land Seller Podcast. Thank you for joining us. Visit wwwamericanlandsellercom and find us on one of your favorite podcast platforms. Wwwamericanlandsellercom and find us on one of your favorite podcast platforms. If you would be so kind and you enjoyed today's insights, please like, subscribe, rate, follow and review us on whatever app you are listening or watching on. Connect with us on social media for updates. Until next week, kobe wishes you success in your land endeavors. God bless you and have a great week.
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