American Land Seller Podcast

Episode 25: Mastering Settlement Planning with Chad Ettmueller

March 15, 2024 Koby Rickertsen Season 2 Episode 25
Episode 25: Mastering Settlement Planning with Chad Ettmueller
American Land Seller Podcast
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American Land Seller Podcast
Episode 25: Mastering Settlement Planning with Chad Ettmueller
Mar 15, 2024 Season 2 Episode 25
Koby Rickertsen

Unlock the secrets of successful asset sales with Chad Etmiller of JCR Settlements as we dissect the intricacies of structured installment sales. This tax maneuver, tucked neatly within Section 453 of the IRC, is a goldmine for sellers seeking ways to delay the tax man's cut from their lucrative land, property, or business deals. By moving sale proceeds into an annuity, our discussion reveals how sellers can craft their financial future, deferring taxes for potentially decades and making the most out of every dollar earned.

Ever wondered how life's curveballs can be managed with financial finesse? From the arid deserts of Arizona to Georgia's family-friendly climes, Chad's wisdom stretches far beyond tax strategies. We navigate the annuity landscape, showing how these vehicles not only comply with the IRS but also serve as life rafts in unpredictable seas. The ability to use annuities as loan collateral or to provide for family needs such as elder care or education costs emerges as a theme, presenting a robust strategy for those plotting a secure yet flexible financial course.

In the property-selling game, timing is everything, and the art of the deal often hinges on payment schedules that are as unique as the clients themselves. Within this episode, we lay out how structured installment sales can be tailored to fit the bespoke needs of each seller, whether they're looking to retire, relocate, or reinvest. The episode is peppered with insights on the pivotal role of financial experts in crafting these deals, and the significance of industry events like the RLI National Land Conference for staying at the forefront of the land consultancy field. Tune in for an episode that's as much about smart selling as it is about shaping a future on your own terms.

For contacting Chad Ettmueller directly at JCR Settlements, you can use the general contact information available on the JCR Settlements website:

Email: admin@jcrsettlements.com
Phone: +1 (800) 661-7075
Website:  www.JCRSettlements.com

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Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Unlock the secrets of successful asset sales with Chad Etmiller of JCR Settlements as we dissect the intricacies of structured installment sales. This tax maneuver, tucked neatly within Section 453 of the IRC, is a goldmine for sellers seeking ways to delay the tax man's cut from their lucrative land, property, or business deals. By moving sale proceeds into an annuity, our discussion reveals how sellers can craft their financial future, deferring taxes for potentially decades and making the most out of every dollar earned.

Ever wondered how life's curveballs can be managed with financial finesse? From the arid deserts of Arizona to Georgia's family-friendly climes, Chad's wisdom stretches far beyond tax strategies. We navigate the annuity landscape, showing how these vehicles not only comply with the IRS but also serve as life rafts in unpredictable seas. The ability to use annuities as loan collateral or to provide for family needs such as elder care or education costs emerges as a theme, presenting a robust strategy for those plotting a secure yet flexible financial course.

In the property-selling game, timing is everything, and the art of the deal often hinges on payment schedules that are as unique as the clients themselves. Within this episode, we lay out how structured installment sales can be tailored to fit the bespoke needs of each seller, whether they're looking to retire, relocate, or reinvest. The episode is peppered with insights on the pivotal role of financial experts in crafting these deals, and the significance of industry events like the RLI National Land Conference for staying at the forefront of the land consultancy field. Tune in for an episode that's as much about smart selling as it is about shaping a future on your own terms.

For contacting Chad Ettmueller directly at JCR Settlements, you can use the general contact information available on the JCR Settlements website:

Email: admin@jcrsettlements.com
Phone: +1 (800) 661-7075
Website:  www.JCRSettlements.com

  1. Instagram
  2. Facebook
Speaker 1:

This week on the American Land Seller, we're happy to introduce you to a true expert in settlement planning.

Speaker 1:

Chad Etmiller is a senior vice president and founding partner at JCR Settlements.

Speaker 1:

Chad brings over 20 years of experience to the table, providing tailored solutions for a wide range of situations, from medical malpractice settlements to land sales income, with a reputation for delivering innovative options that meet the unique needs of all parties involved, ensuring compliance and optimal outcomes every step of the way.

Speaker 1:

Chad offers non-qualified structure services for a variety of scenarios, from employment disputes to structured installment, sales in real estate or business transactions. He's also been at the forefront of groundbreaking initiatives, pioneering the placement of annuity products for student athletes' name, image and likeness transactions, as well as charitable gift annuities for nonprofits and their donors. Before diving into the structured settlement field, chad also served in leadership roles at organizations like the American Red Cross and the National Safety Council, where he gained valuable insight into the nonprofit sector and the importance of social impact initiatives. With a Bachelor's of Arts degree and communications and a nonprofit management certificate from Arizona State University, chad is health and life licensed in all 50 states, positioning himself as a go-to resource for clients nationwide. Join us as he shares his mission to help clients achieve their financial and personal goals through strategic financial planning and, as always, we hope you take away something from this episode.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the American Land Seller Podcast with your host, kobe Richardson. Kobe is an accredited land consultant and multi-state land broker with American Legacy Land Company. Join us each week as we explore all things land. We bring you fresh insights and expert guests on sales, marketing, regulations, economics and so much more. Visit wwwamericanlandsellercom and find us on one of your favorite podcast platforms.

Speaker 3:

Okay Kobe and our special guests let's get started.

Speaker 1:

Hey everybody, welcome back to the American Land Seller Podcast. Super excited to get some information from our guests today. Just a totally it's a mind-blowing thing that he's going to talk to us about. I had not considered this, but Chad Etmiller from JCR Settlements is with us today. Chad, how are we doing? I'm doing well, kobe. How are you man? I am just doing. I'm just living the dream, you know, I'm just super excited to be visiting with you today. So let's just dig right into it, because I know you've got a lot of info that you can share with us. Chad, you wanted to talk to us today about structured installment sale. What exactly is that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's a great question. So it's a first and foremost it's tax deferral strategy, right. So it's an opportunity for any individual who's selling their land, their property, their home or a business that they may own. It gives them an opportunity under Section 453 of the Internal Revenue Code to take any portion of that sale at the time of sale and move it into an annuity investment product. By doing that they avoid taxation on the portion of the sale that they put into the annuity and they will be taxed in the future year or years when the annuity payments are received.

Speaker 3:

Now the best part about it, kobe, is they can design payments in any manner that they would like. They can defer that first annuity payment for 40 years if they wanted to, and so doing they defer their tax obligation for that period of time. So this is a strategy for folks who were maybe considering a 1031 exchange and were unable to find a property and need still a tax deferral solution. This is an opportunity for them to roll into a codified Section 453 structured installment sale with a leading life insurance company and accomplish not only the tax deferral but really amplify their net sales proceeds and if done, depending on how it's done, they can receive literally millions of dollars more over their lifetime than what that final sales price was.

Speaker 1:

Well, that's okay. So that's pretty incredible because a lot of times I mean and don't get me wrong, I think we talked about this before we got going 1031 is a tool of all tools in our business. You're not saying that that's. We're anti that.

Speaker 3:

No, I'm a huge fan of the 1031 exchange. It's a fantastic strategy. It's just that right now, inventories are low it's what I'm hearing from your peers across the country and it's difficult to find a property to roll into, and so, when that's the case, this is still a tax deferral solution that might be appropriate for your client, for a person selling the property.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and it's always important to point out that once again, just like a 1031 exchange, we're not advocating for non-pale of taxes. You know payment of taxes. What we're saying is that we can defer it to a date that maybe makes more sense for people. It may be in a better place to maybe have that tax.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you're exactly right. So the overarching theme here is constructive receipt. And the IRS says that they cannot tax the seller at the time of sale for proceeds for which they have not taken receipt of. So just like any transaction that you have, just like a 1031, when you're sitting at the closing table, the buyer is going to transfer those purchase funds into the escrow account for the property, the ranch, the farm, whatever the case may be, and the seller is going to direct that a portion of that of those proceeds will go directly from the escrow account to the life insurance company with whom this annuity is placed. And by doing that they don't take constructive receipt of the funds.

Speaker 3:

And the IRS is totally comfortable with that. And they say listen, we understand you're deferring this and that's okay, You're allowed to under section 453, but we do want to know when we can tax you. You're not going to avoid taxation here. And so as part of the sale final sales contract, an addendum will be added to that contract that has the future annuity payment schedule attached to it, so that the IRS knows that hey, starting in five years, we can begin to tax the seller and again, they'll only be taxed for the amount that they receive in a given future year, and so it's a great way to spread that tax obligation out over your lifetime if you wanted to, and really create not just financial security for the seller's retirement but also create generational wealth for kids, grandkids, great grandkids. It's an opportunity to do that, if planned correctly.

Speaker 1:

Right, so you're speaking of that. Okay, so you're a part of your estate planning. Let's say we're talking about I think we talked about this just a little bit before too was you have somebody that's at the point in their life where they may need home health, they may need, you know, they may be looking at reverse mortgage, different tools that are available to them. You can set this up so that you don't have to like when I sell my property I know I don't want another one, because that's not the point in my life where I want to be investing and I want to kind of get to the point where I can have the cash available. But I don't have to set up a plan today correct, like I can put it move it into the annuity and then to be determined later how I get my payments.

Speaker 3:

Well, yes and no. So again, in order to comport with IRS guidelines, that future payment schedule does have to be included as an indendum to the sales contract. So we do have to be thoughtful up front in designing the future payment schedules. But the seller has complete flexibility, complete autonomy to design something unique to their needs. They can be paid monthly, quarterly, semi-annually, annually. They can have lump sums dropped in on future identified dates and predetermined amounts if they wanted to, or a combination thereof of all of those things.

Speaker 3:

And to just give you a quick example, I had a gentleman in Iowa a couple of weeks ago. He sold his property for a million and a half dollars. He bought it for 500,000. He had a million dollar capital gains issue that he was looking to deal with and he wanted to go ahead and be liquid. So he kept half of that right. So he kept his initial 500,000 investment. He kept an additional 500,000 in profits. He paid his taxes on that at the time of sale. But he put $500,000 into our structured installment sale product.

Speaker 3:

He's 52 years old. He said I don't want to be paid on this until I turn 65. He was setting it up as kind of a supplement to his retirement and so he's not paying a penny's tax on that $500,000 for the next 13 years and then when he turns 65, he's going to start to draw monthly payments from age 65 to age 85. He's I'm sorry age 90. So he selected a 25-year payout and we anticipate that, through the performance of the annuity index, that his proceeds are going to turn into between 3.2 or to $22 million, depending on how that annuity performs. The historical median for his investment is around $11 million and realistically that's probably what he could expect is somewhere between $3 and $11 million, but still a $1.5 million sale he's now just turned into potentially worst case scenario a $3 million gain for a total of a $4.5 million sale. Best case scenario probably a $10 million gain over his lifetime. So that $1.1 million sale just came almost a $12 million sale through the growth of the annuity product and the future payments that would be paid to him. So not only did he spread his tax obligation out over that entire time period, but he was able to obviously amplify his net return and really set up his retirement.

Speaker 3:

The best part for this gentleman he was in failing health. He's in failing health already and his concern was that, gosh, if I pass away before these payments are made. What happens to these payments, chad? And the great news for anybody participating in this is it goes to your designated beneficiary. It could be your spouse, your kids, your grandkids, your great-grandkids, the church Whoever it is that you want it to go to. Any remaining payments are paid to that individual. There's no additional estate tax or inheritance tax on it. They would pay the same deferred capital gain tax that the original seller would have paid. So it's a great, great strategy to not only secure your financial future, but really set up generational wealth for family members.

Speaker 1:

What sounds like it. Yeah, let's take a quick break, chad, and when we come back we can dig into a little bit more on that as far as the beneficiary side. So if you've got some time, we'll just take a quick break and we will be right back. The American Land Seller podcast is brought to you in part by landhubcom. Join us today and experience the expertise of Landhub's land marketing professionals, whether you're buying or selling. Let us show you the way in the ever-evolving world of land transactions. Visit landhubcom and discover what the future of land marketing looks like. Landhubcom where your land journey begins. All right, we're back with Chad Etmore from the JCR settlements and you're out of Scottsdale, arizona, aren't you?

Speaker 3:

Well, our company is there. I started our company in Arizona. I actually live in North Georgia, yeah and but you were big enough in Arizona.

Speaker 3:

Well, you know it's not a great place to raise a kid. My life kept complaining that the kids were coming off of the slide at nine o'clock in the morning, had burns on the back of their legs by the end of May. Nobody wants to get in the swimming pool. It's 100 degrees and you can't climb a cactus. So we decided to move to the Southeast and let the kids be kids.

Speaker 1:

We lived for almost four years in Southeast Georgia and Kingsland St Mary's area down there, and so it's a pretty part of the country, that's for sure.

Speaker 1:

We loved it. We did, though, my wife and I. I was in the Navy, but she loved it down there because she loves the weather, but I told her I was like, if we're going to ever go back to that part of the country where we lived when I was in the Navy was between the Okefenokee Swamp and Kings Bay, which was like the just muggiest part of the world.

Speaker 3:

It was no like breeze hardly ever, and yeah, no, it can feel like you're breathing peanut butter here sometimes.

Speaker 1:

It gets a little little thick by the time. So you before we, before the break we were kind of talking about I had asked. The question, you know, is if I wanted to slide my money into something like this, can I, can I choose my payment plan later? And you were answering that and I'm not sure you were clear on. I know it was a no or not really.

Speaker 1:

But if you can kind of just I appreciate where you went with that because I did learn a lot, but if you can just kind of clear that up, I would appreciate that Absolutely.

Speaker 3:

I'm happy to and I appreciate you bringing me back to that. You know you were asking about the gentleman who might not know what his future holds, and can he just transfer the money into the annuity and design his payments down the road as he figures out what his needs are? And unfortunately, if there's a downside to our product, it's that the future payment schedule has to be predetermined. The IRS again is saying hey, we understand you're going to defer your tax obligation, but we do want to know when we can tax you in the future. And so that that payment schedule has to be defined and so life can change. I get that.

Speaker 3:

You know, and that's one of the pre minute concerns of our clients is, gosh Chad, if I lock myself into these payments, what if my needs change? And my best answer to that is and what a lot of folks end up doing if they find that they do need liquidity down the road is that you can take that annuity contract to your personal lender, to your bank, and use that contract as collateral. It's good as gold. The banks are looking at contracts for MetLife, independentlife and they recognize all right, this is part of a structured installment sale. These payments are coming and they'll lend to you with that as a collateral basis, and so there, there is a way to use it still.

Speaker 3:

Even if you miscalculate what your future needs are or something comes out of left field and throws you a curveball in life and you need something different, there is a way to use that and still secure the immediate financial resources that you need to address whatever might have landed on your front porch, whether that's an illness or you know something within the family where you need to support somebody unexpectedly.

Speaker 3:

But you know that again, if you really think through these things. One of the things that a lot of folks talk to me about is gosh Chad. I really want these funds to secure my future, and I don't ever want to be in a situation where I have to go into an assisted living facility and a lot of my clients are kind of like-minded in that, and so they look at this as a way that they can retire with financial dignity and, if God forbid, they're ever in a situation where they do need assistance in their living arrangements or health assistance. This type of an annuity product and this structured installment sale will produce the income that allows somebody to come to them, to come to their house and take care of them, and they have the dignity to stay in their home rather than have to go and find an assisted living facility and move into that facility during the fourth quarter of their life. Right, they've worked hard, they've earned the right to to be in their house and stay there, and so this is a solution for those folks as well.

Speaker 1:

And that's very cool because, like there is, I mean, in the insurance world, you have all kinds of different products, right? So how do you know? You know, if I go get a rest home policy or whatever you call it, and I don't live that long, what's that look like? You know, and a lot of it is, you know? I mean, let's be honest, it's geared towards failure. You know, if I don't have to pay out the insurance, you know, that's kind of the name of the game for the insurance people.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know, and so this is like one of those deals where you have the money and the freedom to do whatever If you don't need, if you don't need the, you know, the in-home health till you're in your mid 90s, then you can do something else with it. Yeah, it becomes an annual vacation fund.

Speaker 3:

Then. Or you know, a lot of folks will say, hey, I wanna help my grandkids or my great grandkids with their college tuition, and so they'll set up four years of annual payments to coincide with when those kids are going to college. They may say, hey, my granddaughter's gonna probably get married in the next 10 years. I wanna lump some seven years from now so that we'll have some cash on hand to help put together a wedding for her. You know, whatever needs a person has, we can address it through this product. There's really nothing that somebody can throw at me that I can't accomplish for them.

Speaker 3:

One of the most interesting calls I had a gentleman in Oklahoma. He's 87 years old and he owns literally thousands of pieces of property in small businesses and he was worried about the estate tax burden. He was gonna leave his three adult children when he passed away and he heard about our product and he said, hey, listen, what's the latest that I can defer payment? And it's 40 years. He said, all right, I wanna sell these five parcels of land and I wanna get a single lump sum 40 years from now. And I kinda looked at him and he said I know, I know, I'm gonna be 127 years old. I'm gonna be long dead, right, I said. But what I wanna do is I wanna put a commutation writer on that insurance policy, which means when he passes away, that future lump sum can be immediately accelerated. There's a small penalty to pay associated with that because the insurance company didn't hold on to the money as long as they were anticipating. But he was smart enough to realize, hey, I can. If I die 10 years from now, my kids can accelerate that future lump sum and they can use those lump sums to pay the rest of the estate tax burden that I'm leaving them on the other properties so that they can keep that and they don't have to end up selling those properties. That can all stay within the family and stay in house.

Speaker 3:

So there's a lot of creativity that can be utilized when you look at this product, and the fact that you have complete flexibility is really, I think, what's so attractive to this product is when you add to that Kobe. There's no fees for this. This is completely free of charge. There are never any fees associated with this act, closing or in the future. I'm paid a one-time commission by the insurance company with whom the annuity is placed and that's baked into the returns that the insurance company pays me. So the buyer, the seller, the agents nobody's ever gonna get a bill from us. So my very biased opinion, then, would be that it makes sense to at least consider this in every sale right, and at least weigh what we can do for you against a 1031 exchange or deferred sales trust or some other type of financial instrument that they may be considering.

Speaker 1:

Well, and that's a yeah, that's a no-brainer, because, I mean, again, it's part of the idea behind this is that part of the money that's into this is it's the returns on the initial investment that are shared, you know, like that are shared with the insurance companies that make it make sense, right, right, yep, it's not an all or nothing scenario, right, I mean they can.

Speaker 3:

somebody could take half of their net sales proceeds and put it into this product, and they could take the other half and put it into a 1031. It's not an all or nothing scenario, and I think that's kind of an attractive reality about this, to two folks as well. That's very cool.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, let's take another break, and you've got another segment in you. I do, I would appreciate it, and we will be right back. The American Land Seller podcast is brought to you in part by American Legacy Land Company. At American Legacy, our seasoned agents set us apart, providing unmatched service with a personal touch that goes beyond expectation. With a wealth of market knowledge and a diverse portfolio including farms, ranches, development lands and recreational properties, we forge lasting connections with clients through honesty, integrity and transparency. Visit us at americanlegacylandcocom and find the land that defines your legacy. Hey everybody, we're back with Chad et mealer from JCR settlements. There, company is based out of Scottsdale, arizona, but Chad is based out of, as we talked about before, from Georgia. So multi-state company, I guess, wouldn't it?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, we're a national company, so we operate in all 50 states.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was gonna say you should do your own ornion. That's not an easy thing to do, is it? It's not.

Speaker 3:

There's a lot of licensing involved in that and a lot of continuing education that's involved in that.

Speaker 1:

I was gonna say is there a way to get I'm multi-state land broker right? So I'm in nine, 10 states that I have my license in and there are some continuing ed that I can find. That is all the states, or most of the states will take it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, fortunately there is a lot of reciprocal arrangement, but there's a few honoree states out there where we have to go through the process with them uniquely.

Speaker 1:

so yeah, that's the same with real estate. It's brutal, but all right. So, man, let's go back and let's just reiterate this is not like we were talking about this during the break. It's not an all or nothing policy, right, like there's. There's a couple of facets that I just wanted you to maybe clarify for people, first of all being what happens if I am like one of the things we were talking about this for is because of the fact that, hey, I, there's not a lot for sale. So if I sell a big ranch and my whole whole point is like I'm selling a big chunk of property in a certain part of a geographical region and I want to move my investment to a different part of the country, which a lot of people do, surprisingly enough, I've seen people sell 20,000 acre ranches and then they go divest that into like a five, six thousand acre or irrigated farm. What's my, what's my penalties? Like, can I do that? Can I like change you know? Like, yeah, we know that's my plan, can I? Can I plan that out?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's a great question, and so I mean we've touched on it earlier right, inventory is low, finding a property. I think a lot of people right now feel like they're kind of shoe-horn themselves into a property and convincing themselves that this is a property they want to roll into. And what a lot of folks are determining is, no, I don't want to do that, I still want to defer my tax obligation. And so they're going ahead and putting in whatever portion of their sale that they want to into the structured installment sale and they're setting it up so that the future payments back to them might be a single lump sum in three years or five years or seven years, and they know exactly what that amount is. That's coming back to them in three years, five years, seven years, and so it gives them enough runway to work with the real estate professional to identify what that next purchase is right. And so I'm not shoe-horning myself into what's available to me today at the time of my sale.

Speaker 3:

There may be some more attractive properties that come available in the next three, five, seven years. Maybe not only is inventory better, but prices may come down a little bit. There's always that pendulum that's swinging in this, this market and so a lot of folks are using, they're pivoting from the 1031 and they're putting their eggs into the short-term basket of I don't want to completely jump out of the 1031 game, but I need to jump out of it right now, defer my taxes and then know what I'm getting three years, five years, seven years from now, so that can work with Koby and find that next property. So that's where I see a lot of application for folks who enjoy the 1031 process but just can't find a property right now that they want to want to pull the trigger on.

Speaker 1:

But depending on who you ask, on that too, I mean, this might be a good tool, because a lot of my guys that are doing what you're talking about they'll look at a five-year Delaware land trust or they'll look at, like, putting it into a re or something like that, that they have an exit ramp in so many years and they can either decide to reinvest or whatever after that. So this would just be a little bit, I mean, less stressful way of doing. That is as you can. Well, a couple of things are right it's.

Speaker 3:

It is less stressful, it's certainly less expensive because you don't have the the expense of setting up the trust and managing the trust and there's a definite end right. You know exactly what the dollar yield amount is in three years, in five years, in seven years with the deferred sales trust or Delaware sales trust, you kind of have a sense of what that number may be, but you don't know definitively. And so with this product, you know absolutely, the day you sell that property, you sign that contract, that in three years you're going to get a lump sum for this amount. You know exactly what that amount is and it allows you, as the real estate professional, to use that amount to go and find that next property to get into.

Speaker 1:

But just to clarify, we're still and again I'm the slow kid, so that's why we just to clarify, we do need to put, like that, that structure of time on it, correct. So we can't just say, hey, I'm going to throw this in for 20 years and tomorrow I find a, you know, a farm that I want.

Speaker 3:

You know, we just put that 24 month, you know, yeah, no you're exactly right that payment date has to be defined and it's coming. Well, whether you find that property or not, that payment's going to come in three years and five years, whenever it is that you've defined as the date that that payment is coming. So it will be coming and but it just gives you, rather than the 90 days, 120 days to find that property. It's giving you 36 months. It's giving you 60 months to find that property. Really do your due diligence and and get into a piece of property or an investment that you want to get into, rather than scurrying about and just settling for something that you're not real excited about.

Speaker 1:

And we're continuing the deferment on that. Correct, You're exactly right. Right, okay, yeah, that's incredible. So, and again, like what happens if we get to the 24 months or the six year or whatever you know, we decide we put that rule in place and we decide, hey, we're not going to buy land, we just want to keep it. We can just keep it.

Speaker 3:

You're exactly right. You keep it, you pay your deferred tax obligation on it in that calendar year and the rest is yours. So it's a winning scenario, regardless of the outcome, you've successfully deferred taxes at the time of sale and you've amplified the investment through the annuity. And I want to mention real quick there's two annuity options. There's a fixed annuity product that's got a yield right now about four and a half to five and a quarter percent, and then there's an index to annuity option that has yields as high as 12% right now depending on the payment schedule how long that first payment's deferred.

Speaker 3:

So you know it's a pretty substantial return on investment right now. Nice.

Speaker 1:

All right. So I'm going to get greedy because I'm a land broker and I want to just kind of make sure that I understand how this works. I'm dealing with a seller, or does this work for my buyers too? What's that look like? Is there any benefit to when I'm a buyer's agent?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'm so glad you asked that because a lot of the phone calls I'm getting right now are actually from buyer's reps and they're using our tool to enhance their offer. Right and especially in competitive situation where there's multiple bids and bids over asking price, this is a way that they can amplify their offer significantly. Not only am I going to give you this, but there's a combination of tax savings and future annuity growth. You're going to get this, and it really allows them to put their offer in front of the seller and really distinguish their offer from anybody else. So we're seeing that happen a lot and I'm also having a lot of real estate professionals call me with properties that they're considering lowering the price on. It just hasn't sold, and so they're saying, gosh, I need something to cushion the blow with my client, because I have to go to him or go to her and say, hey, look, we need to drop the asking price by $300,000 on this property. How can I show them where we can make that up? And this is a perfect product to do that, so you can soften the blow.

Speaker 3:

If you're not fielding offers at list price, you can go to your client and say, listen, I know we're asking $1.5 million for this property. I know the best offer we've gotten is $900,000. That's okay. We can accept that $900,000 offer. You can be done with this and, through the combination of tax savings and the future annuity growth, you're going to get well more than the $1.5 that we listed at. You're going to get multi-millions of dollars, and so when they see that and they understand what in real life can happen for them, they will be more willing to consider the offers that are coming in lower than what that list price is. So in theory, whether you're on the buyer side or the seller side, it should help you. This product should help you, as a real estate professional, close your listings in a more efficient and cost effective manner.

Speaker 1:

Well and I mean it's at the very least the phone call to you, chad, to talk to you about what my options are or what my clients options are. Yeah, it seems like it should be something that happens, and I guess the more like this is something fairly new to me. I guess I know there's guys out there that are using the heck out of you, and I think I've seen you at the National Land Conference before Yep. I just haven't had a chance to share some time with you, but I mean, that's to me, it's again. It may not be the right thing for the situation, but it's at least another thing to it's another. When you come to the fork in the road, it's another fork for you. Now let's take a look at and see if this may be something that's going to work best for our clients.

Speaker 3:

You're exactly right, you can never have too many options, and this is just that. It's an option. It may not be the panacea for a given circumstance but again, as we mentioned before, there's virtually nothing that a seller could throw at me that I can't design a payment schedule around to address what their needs are. So it's at least worth exploring on nearly every transaction.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, and my brain's already whirling on. Can I put this in my? Can I put something about this in my listing presentation book or something like this? Just remind me when I'm going through stuff that hey, here's some of the options that we have, because I already have 1031 option stuff in there. But again, like there's like we talked about this at the very beginning, before we even started. Like I joke around about my dad. He's got a piece of property that he calls Restome Quarter or whatever, and so that's one of those things where, if it's really what he wants to do, you know, like that's just another option is to make sure that, depending on a person's time in their life, that they may, this may be the best thing for them.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it gives them options, which is a great thing. And you mentioned the LAN conference will be there again this year, here a couple of weeks, again next month in Louisville. So we'd love to talk to you further and explore some options for your clients.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, we'll definitely catch up with you down there. It's a great. I tell people outside I'm not a super big fan of like what do you call it? The conventions and stuff like that, but man, I don't miss this one. This one has so much good information and it's just, you're surrounded by the top people in the industry. That's the top 15,. 20% of the land brokers in the country are there.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you're exactly right. I've been to hundreds, hundreds and hundreds of conferences and conventions. The quality of professional at the RLI National Land Conference is second to none and it's just, it's good to be around folks who have similar values. And you know we will be there and we're excited to be there again, and in the middle of bourbon country too. So you can't go wrong that way either.

Speaker 1:

So Taking an extra bag. So, yeah, I think we can find that stuff home now, so you don't have to take, you don't have to smuggle it on the plane. Yeah, let's just finish it up here, let's just do a little. When is it the best time for me to get your folks involved in the process?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, well, I that's a good question and my answer is always it's never too early, right? If you're representing the seller, we want to be talking with them, you know, if not before you list, right, when you do list, so that they have a sense of what can be accomplished for them. We can run different scenarios so that as they begin to field offers, they know what that translates into right and they know that, okay, if we accept this offer and we put this much into the structured installment sale, it's going to turn into this. So never too soon to get us involved, in my opinion.

Speaker 3:

We always like to have a final decision on the payment schedule, ideally two weeks prior to closing, because we want to provide the addendum to the sales contract to all parties in advance of closing so that when you sit down at the closing table, everybody knows exactly what we require to finalize the installment sale. Nobody's caught off guard. The last thing you want to do is throw a curveball at folks at the closing table. That's the surest way to kill a deal. So ideally as soon as possible. Worst case scenario we'd like to be involved a couple of weeks prior to closing Nice.

Speaker 1:

At the very latest. Right yeah, earlier the better, correct, okay. And you had mentioned before the no preparation costs. Nothing like that for people.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, because it's an insurance.

Structured Installment Sale Tax Deferral
Planning for Financial Flexibility With Annuities
Flexibility and Benefits of Investment Options
Exploring Options for Clients